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Poor Valve probably has no idea what's going on at the moment. It's normally the apple of every gamer's eye, unable to do no wrong, but that's not the case right now. Since it was announced late last week that the Half Life developer had made it possible for modders to release content with a price tag on Steam's Workshop, gamers have not been pleased. To try and mitigate that, Valve's founder, Gabe Newell, took to Reddit over the weekend to defend his company's actions.
However if you head over to the regular AMA thread, finding his posts are actually quite difficult due to him being downvoted so much. When you do find them however, many of them appear understanding and keen to help, with Newell fixing a couple of individual people's issues, like “unfairly” banned accounts.
However, when it comes to the future of modding, many people's concerns aren't easily cleared up. For example, Valve wouldn't prevent a developer from only allowing paid for mods through the workshop, blocking out other sites and sources like the popular Nexus and Curse platforms.
‘But you guys gave us this a few years ago?!'
Newell later went on to highlight that much of Valve's internal developers came from the modding scene. Icefrog worked on DotA Allstars as a Warcraft II mod, John Rock and Robin Walker made Team Fortress as a Quake mod. Their careers, he pointed out, really started when someone agreed to pay them for their work.
Gamers quickly jumped on this positive tale however, and asked whether Newell thought games like DotA would ever have taken off if it was a paid modification. Newell admitted that they wouldn't. He did however announce that Valve would be adding a donate-what-you-want button option for modders that would rather accept voluntary contributions, instead of locking content behind a paywall.
Not all questions were so nicely worded however and Newell did spend some time fielding questions from those that accused Valve of money grubbing:
“Let's assume for a second that we are stupidly greedy. So far the paid mods have generated $10K total,” he said. “That's like 1% of the cost of the incremental email the program has generated for Valve employees (yes, I mean pissing off the Internet costs you a million bucks in just a couple of days). That's not stupidly greedy, that's stupidly stupid.”
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KitGuru Says: As much as it was good of Newell to take some time out of his schedule to address concerns, I'm not sure he helped much.
Image source: Wikimedia
Donate only is the only way to go.. if I had to pay for every mod I have for Skyrim + the initial cost Skyrim would have cost me about £200…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3p9mRDGo1U
Exactly. I think it would actually be very positive for Valve to implement a donate option. It would benefit everyone. But I do not think paywall is a good idea for modding, at all. I would stay clean of the paid mods altogether if that was the case, and only donate to the mods I find really good.
Yes a donation is a much better idea then the better modder’s would make the money instead of some dildo just in it for the quicker dollar and leaving unfinished mod’s, while people that payed for that unfinished garbage pay the price. So having to pay for mod’s is just a bad idea and stupid , I have no idea why they would do this, sounds good on paper but it won’t work but your idea of donation will work .
Money makes the world go around, Go around…
Like I’ve said from day one Gabe can take a run and jump. The arsehole is ruining PC gaming.
Looking at that Reddit, he barely answered any of the more (what I consider) more important questions. It’s one thing to introduce an idea that many people don’t agree with, progress only comes with risk-taking after all, but to do so then not be willing to be completely upfront about it just seems like a stupid move in this scenario.
While I don’t have an issue with spending money on mods, I do have an issue with paying for a mod, if you see what I mean.
The donate button is by the the fairest way forward. Mods, by default, should remain free.
It’s also a shame that the dev studio set the percentage cut so high, I could agree with less that %50 but %75 is stupidly high…. The effort for the modders wouldn’t be worth the return of %25.
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Is that a fixed percentage for all dev studios? I would have thought it would be up to the studio itself.
Anyone who has spent their time and effort creating something has a right to charge for it. It is up to them how they want to do it and they will either crash and burn if they are greedy or be successful if they offer value. Clearly making a mega popular mod is a gateway to a good industry job so some people are always going to do it for free. Likewise there will be people creating mods who will be able to do it full time rather than as a hobby if it is generating them a wage.
I read that if a dev makes less than $400 over the year, its 100%
the fact people still praise steam as god’s gaming platform is still sad. Overpriced game and horrible service & servers. Fucking idiots who still defend steam and using it.
the only games that are over prices are console games..
and yes it’s true that pc games are over priced as well bing 59$+ p to 74.99. which no game is worth that. How ever most people in PC gaming don;t buy at full price and wait twice a year for the big sales..
and thoses big sale are deffently NOT over priced.. There prices that are hard to resist.. Has much as people might like to say they hate steam ect… the one thing they don’t hate is the prices twice a year
personally I think paying for *skins* and Keys for to unlock said skins is one of the most stupidest ideas ever.. Next to paying for digital cards, emoticons, and background images..
one of the many reason why I hate Tf2, dota2, and cs:go.. also one of the many reason why I don’t even touch the games with a 10 foot poll.. same reason why I won’t even bother looking at the paid mods…
On the other side I still think steam is the 1 stop for pc games and almost the single place I buy games now..
I think it’s the 75% cut Steam gets that pisses people off more than anything.
God knows how much it would cost me, I have roughly 900 mods downloaded and 255 installed at any given time. >.<
Is that just what they have asked for with mods of their games, or a general figure to have it on Steam?
Like all mods for Skyrim, every sale the mod creaters only see 25%, where the rest goes to Valve.
Fairplay, that is ridiculous. I can understand them making 5%-10% on all sales as part of running Steam. After that it should be between the studio and the modder. Say you don’t really want mods as you have a load of DLC you want to sell, you may want to make it unattractive to modders, but if you want to just build interest in your game and keep it going you could easily let the modders keep the lot.
The rest does NOT go to Valve. This 75% stuff really need’s to stop. 25% to the Creator and an undisclosed split of the remaining 75% between Valve and the original Game Developer. Valve do NOT get 75% to themselves. Christ sake, read the term’s listed below. Take’s seconds. They are very similar to the Skins system in CSGO in-regards to terms.
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=72850
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=72850
A few things.
It was not an AMA thread. It was a PSA type thread on /r/gaming. That’s why Gabe avoids most of the highest votes and most articulate questions: because it’s not an AMA. It was a PR move.
>many of them appear understanding and keen to help, with Newell fixing a couple of individual people’s issues, like “unfairly” banned accounts.
This is a typical PR move. They do lots of bad things and say they’ll solve one of them and people think they’re the good guy again, even when the thing they solve should never have happened and has nothing to do with the original issue. Gabe’s responses are not understanding. Saying things like ‘Actually money is how the community steers work.’ when he’s talking about a modding scene that has existed for *decades* without any direct monetary support is beyond naive, it’s purposefully ideological. Regardless, it certainly does show indisputably that you’re wrong: his responses are not understanding. He does not understand.
And as for this:
“Let’s assume for a second that we are stupidly greedy. So far the paid mods have generated $10K total,” he said. “That’s like 1% of the cost of the incremental email the program has generated for Valve employees (yes, I mean pissing off the Internet costs you a million bucks in just a couple of days). That’s not stupidly greedy, that’s stupidly stupid.”
First, the original question was not nasty. It was fair and reasonable. As for his answer – who does he think he’s kidding? They couldn’t have known that it would kick off like this, so it doesn’t prove anything of the sort. Also, $1m for a day’s customer service work at Valve? Yeah. Right. Valve has no customer service to cost money in the first place! Even if this obvious lie has any truth to it, Valve will still make a net profit out of this in the long run.
They’ve always had the option. They could host it on their own servers and charge for that if they want, or they can put it on the Nexus with a request to donate if they’re less bothered.
Making a paid marketplace changes the entire ecosystem for modders and gamers alike, and ultimately, for gamers, there’s no benefit to them.
They make 30% standard on all sales from steam. This is no different; but Bethesda want 45%, which equals the 75% figure. Valve’s 30% is ridiculous, but Beth’s 40% for mods that only benefit them is even more so. Also add in to the equation that modders only receive cash monthly, and in USD so there’s no exchange costs and very small transaction costs, and most importantly, modders only make any money if the mod makes more than $400. If it makes less then Valve pockets the lot.
Well, a lot of modders disagree with you. Stop deciding for them.
wtf? do you even know how selling things works?
Do you really think they’ll make more money on their own servers with no advertising? If they have advertising, do you think it rivals what the advertising on the largest PC gaming platform that exists?
Do you really think they’ll make more money than sales with donations? This is ridiculous.
“Ultimately, for gamers, there’s no benefit to them” – What a disgusting statement. Incredibly selfish.
$400 isn’t exactly much over a year to be honest (I’d even go far as to say that’s negligible, I mean, that’s a weeks shopping per month payed for?) . Though the idea of a threshold is better then 1 rule fits all.
I think bethesda games set their cut if that awnsers the question for you?
Then I’ve lost a little bit of faith in the modding comminity.
Like I said, I have no issue with donating money to modders, but the moment you ask for money up front for a mod, it ceaces to be a mod in my eyes and becomes DLC.
Blurring the lines between ExpansionsDLC and mods is a bad move.
>What a disgusting statement. Incredibly selfish.
A pragmatic statement, not a stupid one. Asking people to support an idea that will make their experience tangibly worse in many ways is stupid. Dismissing the vast *vast* majority of people in this discussion is also stupid. I say this as someone on both sides of the tracks: a popular mod-maker in the Morrowind/Oblivion/FOIII years, and a mod-user.
>Do you really think they’ll make more money on their own servers with no advertising?
This isn’t about making as much money as possible. That should be self-evident – but I suppose perhaps you have to have been involved in the modding community to understand. The modding community is and always has been about giving something back to the games and the communities that we love. When we make mods, the vast majority make them for that reason. If you wanted to make lots and lots of money then making mods isn’t the thing that you should be doing – making apps, or games, might work, but mods just don’t net you that much cash, and they won’t make even the most prolific of modders rich under Steam’s system. So no, this isn’t about making as much money as possible. It’s about modders getting some cash back for the work they put in, which is a great idea at heart. There’s nothing wrong with that, but a monetised ecosystem like this will just kill modders who don’t want money (like myself), and incentivise modders who want to make as much money as possible, as opposed to the old system which incentivised those who were the most talented.
>Do you really think they’ll make more money than sales with donations? This is ridiculous.
Putting a donation button on would very likely make them as much money or more than the Valve system. If you’re a good modder on TESnexus then you make a decent amount back. A donate button on steam would net them more money than this system, I’m sure. Remember that modders are only getting 25% of the money, *at best*. If they make under $400 then they get nothing – the entire thing goes to steam. The vast majority of modders will fall under this bracket and make no money, just be cheapened by selling their mods instead of giving a free contribution to the community. Donations are donations to the modder, not payment for the mod, which is much more appropriate and avoids all of the IP, legal and financial issues that Valve and Beth will have to deal with. That’s why donations became the standard, and it’s why that should continue to be the case moving forward: what we want to do is incentivise donations more, centralise them (i.e. putting a donation button on steam), and make it as easy and nice as possible for users (e.g. paypal or steam wallet). Even giving modders steam-wallet funds for donations would probably be taken well by the community, and it would benefit steam and Beth, because there wouldn’t be the exchange/transaction fees at the same level, and would be internally spent.
If you are good at something, don’t do it for free.
No, they haven’t ever had the option to sell it, not legally anyway.
I’m a long-standing modder, and to be honest, I’m the major person on this set of threads who disagrees with *you*. Honestly, the backlash against this has been much stronger amongst the modding community than the gaming community at large. We don’t want to be monetised.
It’s certainly not clear that they do now. The IP and copyright issues are massive. Most mods were not made to be scrutinised for this sort of thing. The amount of times I lifted stock textures off google and edited them for a mod when I was younger… They’ve always pushed the limits of legality, and the thing that complicates that is the introduction of payment. Donation to the modder has always been possible, and was a part of the Nexus and the community at large long before Valve did this.
Don’t listen to this guy. He doesn’t speak for modders. Neither do I, but personally, as a modder, I agree absolutely with you, and in my experience, from the people I’ve spoken and the feelers in the community, the general consensus certainly seems to be majority agreement with you. In fact, all of the people I’ve spoken to so far (on reddit and various sites) who’ve argued in favour of the Valve policies, like Jake here, aren’t modders. It seems a little like white knighting. Very few modders want mods directly monetised, and almost none in the way it’s done; they certainly don’t want direct monetisation on a single platform with a tiny percentage. It’s stupid, pointless, and damaging to the community as a whole. A donation button is far better for everyone, with a better cut for the modders, preferably little or no cut for Bethesda, and a decent deal apart from that (none of that $400+ nonsense).
Yes, unfortunately, it was clearly just a PR stunt. It was clear from his first responses that Valve have committed to this policy, and while it might change, he was meant to make it clear that it’s not going away. He wasn’t there to negotiate with the community and address their concerns, he was there to sell it to them.
Edit: and I’ve just heard the wonderful news that they’ve scrapped it for now.
Surprised the Steam cost is 30%. Would have thought most publishers would aim for a 50:50 split of the money after the Steam tax.
wtf? Actually, i am a modder. I was preparing a mod for when I assume GMod was going to be monetized, thanks. Nice shitty assumptions.
Did you know that a some of those modders made over $1000 in those 2 days? Of course you didn’t, because you didn’t fact check at all. Over 150 mods were on the paid/paid under review site – yes, some of them were trolls but some weren’t, there’s a lot of modders there who wanted to do it – why because you DON’T want to should they not be allowed to? Doesn’t make any sense.
How much money have you made in donations mate? How much in 2 days? More than $1000? Yeah right. I bet it’s not even close to that. The donations argument is a huge joke.
You’ve spoken to people on reddit, a place governed by bloody upvotes. Anybody who disagreed with the masses got downvoted to shit. You wouldn’t see any of the modders who disagreed with you because it was a hugbox.
In comparison, being a Computer Science student i’ve spoke to people on both sides of the argument, but most saying that it should come back in a better form. Why the fuck would I white knight valve? I’ve seen this work for Dota 2 cosmetics – I don’t see why it wouldn’t for this, but hey, you all went in an uproar before it could even be tried out and made people lose out on thousands.
Don’t make assumptions if you have no idea if it’s going to bite you in the arse.
out of the 18 mods at started most of them had started making money. Some,over $1000. In 2. Fucking. Days.
I’ve already spoken to you on another discussion- respond there instead. Not every modder wants to sit there “for the community”. some people just do it for fun by themselves, some want to make a little money on the side. is that so hard to understand? WE have proof, you know. All the mods that were already going up on the paid/paid under review section. How is that not proof for you, jesus christ.
Honestly, that’s surprising to me because I haven’t heard a single other modder behave in this sort of childish way. I’ve heard plenty of disagreement, but not this sort of furious whining.
I did know that modders made some money. Nice sourcing for that stat by the way. Given that Gabe himself said on the reddit thread that the paid mods had generated $10k total (which means $2.5k to all modders combined – and given that it doesn’t work that way that’s a maximum stat which is likely to be far less than half in reality) two days ago, I’d love to see the source. It’s not impossible, but it would mean confirmation of one of the problems we were pointing out in the first place: there would be one or two who would earn all of the money and very little for anyone else. That aside, even assuming the stat is accurate, I find it difficult to believe that you’d genuinely imagine that earning money on release of this system is representative of the long-term earning potential. Of course they were going to make money on release, for numerous reasons, including: because people who had used the mods before would want immediate access to new versions, people who support the system would buy straight away and en bloc, and prices haven’t equalised yet so there’s much more flexibility in the project. It’s exceptionally naive to imagine that can be used in some sort of long term financial projection. That’s like taking a day one game earnings and projecting it as long term income.
You’ve said you’re a student. That partly explains it. You’ll learn (hopefully) that ad hominem, emotionalised, moralising, attacks don’t comprise an argument. And if you’re that young then you can’t have been a part of the modding community for long – which explains why you’ve misjudged the community as a whole so badly. Sure, there are people who are difficult and egotistical, and there are people who just want to make a buck (like yourself). But the vast majority of the modding community isn’t like that, largely because most of us have been around for years and understand the legal, IP, and copyright issues that make direct monetisation too complicated and complex. We understand that an open and free community with collaboration, built on piracy and sharing, made the community what it is and sustains it today. If the community survives this then you’ll learn that, in time.
I never made any money in donations because I didn’t allow donations. I don’t want money. Money would make me feel under pressure, obligated, and cheapen the experience for me. Plenty of people I know took donations and made a nice little bit of cash – and still do, even on older Ob or MW mods. They’d never make an income (certainly not a reliable one) as they wouldn’t in Valve’s system, but they made a nice bit.
I wasn’t saying you were white knighting for Valve, I was saying you were doing it for modders. We can speak for ourselves, and in fact, we did speak for ourselves. I didn’t say I got my information for reddit, though the community there is definitely a good one – I should point out that the upvote/downvote system does clearly show majority opinion, which was my point. Not every modder agreed, but agreement was by far the majority. The consensus everywhere I went was that this is a bad thing for Skyrim (which has a modding community that’s as different from Dota as night and day), which the gaming community in general agreed with, and now Valve and Bethesda have also seen. If you’re smart you’ll listen and learn.
Almost everyone agrees that it should come back in a better form. That would be a good thing. The donation button is now on the cards, and that’s hopefully the form in which it will return. That would be a great thing for modders because it will avoid the smorgasbord of issues with the old system, but benefit from the added visibility of them being centralised on the workshop, easy payment, steam wallet donations, and all sorts of other things.
You’re speaking for your own section of modders. There was a bunch of modders who decided they wanted to use the service.
it.
was.
their.
choice.
Not yours to remove from them. How can you argue against that. People of the “community” assumed it was bad and simply ruined it for an admittedly smaller amount of people. Does not mean it was fair, especially when it was mainly all conjecture. other than that, if the majority of modders are on your side… your community is surely safe anyway.
You said you’ve heard this from no one, and claimed you used reddit in an earlier post. I’d like to note that an upvote on reddit does not mean it’s a modder. Any discourse was downvoted into the ground and never seen.
I cannot side with people who assumed they were protecting modders who made their own choice to put up their work. I cannot side with people who acutally argue that donations can rival the money from sales. $1000 in 2 days. there were a lot more days to come – of course it would slow, but it’s still going to trickle over. They are bad arguments, that’s why I don’t accept them. I posted this on the escapist magazine’s facebook post. atleast 6 of them were accusing me lying about the money made by the modders. Another 6 saying “WHY NOT JUST DONATIONS!!”.. If that’s their reasoning, i will not accept it. People jumped the gun ridiculously. People complained about the percentage being too low – I agree, but it’s not that low. Without skyrim, there is no payment. It makes sense than bethesda receives something – it is money grabbing but it is also fair. Valve taking 30% is also fair – free advertising, free use of store. Yes, the percentage was too high on bethesda’s part, but it was still the choice of those modders to put their mods up for sale, not the community’s.
Obviously the modders from SkyUI disagreed with you, and i’m pretty sure you can’t argue that they were “not part of the community”. I have not misjudged the community. I just don’t believe in removing a person’s choice because you think it’s not good for you. Your arguments are conjecture. If this was in 2 or 3 weeks and everything had been the biggest load of crap, sure. but as the time it fell, only 18 decent mods were available to be purchased – and people thought they were valuable enough to warrant one.
Your proof is here (http://imgur.com/gallery/nPKtH) – but sadly it’s 3 days old. I personally wish I screenshotted everything before it disappeared, there was a lot more sales on those. “buying new versions” is an odd thing to say considering they were all previously unreleased mods. (or, at the least, some of them were, such as the shadow set, the top seller.) I’d also like to note – very little for anyone else is a bad argument – if the mod is bad, they don’t deserve as much money, do they. It works like reddit – the most upvoted post is going to be seen the most, and favourited the most, and the downvoted ones fall to the ground.
I’d like to note how small things like the swords were – they still made $100.
I never projected it as sustaining income, it’s just a nice bonus for your work, is it not. Some people like that.
Personally, i will forgive all of this if it comes back in a better form. but, if it doesn’t, it will be people who assumed it would be bad before it had even done anything wrong. Yes, there was that issue with Chesko – but even he admitted the money was tempting. Another guy who many called a great modder. It was a silly mistake, nothing more.
Ok look, you need to learn to be less verbose. That was a task to read. If you have a lot to say then you can spend a long time writing, but when you only have a few points and it takes you that long then you’ve gone wrong.
>There was a bunch of modders who decided they wanted to use the service. it. was. their. choice.
No. It was all of our choice, and ultimately, Valve and Bethesda’s choice. Having paid mods is the individual modder’s choice now as it always was, as I’ve already said. Changing the entire ecosystem would have affected us all, so we all got a say. It’s as simple as that.
>You said you’ve heard this from no one, and claimed you used reddit in an earlier post.
You need to work on your reading comprehension or your critical thinking, because either you didn’t read the particularities of my points or you didn’t understand them. For instance: ‘all of the people I’ve spoken to so far (on reddit and various sites) who’ve argued in favour of the Valve policies, like Jake here, aren’t modders’ – that’s true. I haven’t heard any other modder argue in favour of Valve’s policies. I’ve heard them argue that different bits are reasonable and other bits aren’t, and I’ve heard them (mostly) argue that the principle is reasonable but the execution is terrible. I haven’t heard someone support them as you have. That is not the same as claiming no modders supported it in any way or overall.
>I cannot side with people who acutally argue that donations can rival the money from sales. $1000 in 2 days.
There are quite a few points to be made, so I’ll keep to the major ones. First, you evidently don’t understand economics. For instance: piracy actually increases legal and legitimate sales. Likewise, sometimes direct monetisation makes less money than donation-based ones, hence the success of Humble Bundle, for instance. If you understand one thing about economics understand that it is not simple: it’s very hard to predict the relative success, in financial terms, of two different models. However, we can say, as above, that neither would provide a stable living.
As for your $1000 in 2 days ‘proof’ – I gave you the CEO of Valve itself 2 days ago (https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/cqojx8y ), and you give me a 404 imgur page from 3 days ago? You really don’t understand what evidence is, do you?
>Obviously the modders from SkyUI disagreed with you, and i’m pretty sure you can’t argue that they were “not part of the community”. I have not misjudged the community. I just don’t believe in removing a person’s choice because you think it’s not good for you.
Ok. This is an excellent example of why the policy was a bad idea. Monetising these mods has caused the factionalisation of the entire community, and the alienation of a number of modders. Mardoxx and the other devs (Snakster/Shlangster), who were previously harmoniously co-existing in the community, are now at odds with everyone else. Why? Because of this policy. They chose to crap all over the community (well, they claimed there wasn’t a community in the first place – https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33r0r9/a_genuine_appeal_to_the_true_sons_of_modding_the/cqnvk2z ) in order to try to make a buck. That’s a great example of why the policy was bad *for everyone*. This is the most important point that you’re missing. This policy affected everyone, from modders who would like to monetise their mods to modders who would like to remain free, from gamers who play with 900 mods to gamers who’ve never played Skyrim, from Valve to people who’ve not yet used a PC. It’s about the future of our community and the future of PC gaming.
As I said, you’re young. You’re completely missing the bigger picture and the finer details; the impact in the long term, and for the community as a whole, and the nuances of incentivised markets, IP and copyright, and so on. You need to learn to listen, and to accept this. We’re all going to have to discuss a way forward, because Valve want the community input. If you want to be a part of that then you need to be prepared to discuss and listen to experience and nuance, not just assert without grasping the subtleties.
Having a say is fair – but you guys really had no idea how much it would affect before it had even started. Why are knee-jerk reactions a good thing? Don’t kill it before it’s done anything wrong, just because it might.
I don’t know why you repeatedly say it’s because i’m young I think like this. I know what it feels like to spend hours programming and get nothing out of it. Mainly it’s a lot of fun for me – but the thing I hate the most, personally is someone asking me to make something for them without payment. It’s great to make something that people enjoy, but hey, sometimes that’s not good enough. Other people just simply think this way.
I actually wrote a whole essay on how piracy increases sales. I expect these people will make at least some profit as i do conflate it with the Dota 2 store – which is a particularly similar affair. Yes, when things first come out they get a massive surge in money. My argument is not that they’re going to make $1000 every 2 days forever, it’s that $1000 in 2 days is more than they had ever made. Conflating it to the humble bundle is ridiculous, too. There’s an obvious monetary gain when you buy from the humble bundle – almost whatever you pay you’re “profiting” in your head, as what you paid is far cheaper than the value of the games on say, steam. Maybe a humble store for mods would be a pretty cool idea, but that’s definitely not a comparison to what we’re talking about. Picking out one example of donations making more money than actual sales where sales are going to make more money most of the time (as long as the amount of users seeing it is around the same).
Yes, my proof is old, and i have no idea why it 404’d btw. I assume it’s been deleted. I wish i had taken screenshots myself before it died, sadly i did not.
Personally, thinking SkyUI becoming paid an excellent example of why the policy is a bad idea is exactly my point. Why are they not allowed to make money off their work? You state that i miss the bigger picture, but all I see is one modder trying to profit off something he put a lot of time into. What is wrong with that. Just because you’ve had it free for a long time doesn’t mean it always should be.
You’re saying i’ve got it wrong because i’m young, but your last paragraph is completely conjecture, as none of it had happened other than the Chesko issue before it was gone. The chesko issue was silly, but hopefully How is there a big picture when nothing has gone wrong at the time of death? Maybe SkyUI is a particular in your eyes, I can see why you’d think that and why many would be angry. however, they made their choice. If they wanted to crap over a community (I STILL don’t see how), that’s their choice.
Anyway – at this point it doesn’t matter what i think, all i care about is that it comes back. In the end, if it does it WILL be better for both modders and the community, so i’m done caring until it turns back up.