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“First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a socialist,” begins the poetic version of Pastor Martin Niemöller's famous statement about the cowardice of German intellectuals during the rise of the Nazi party. It's a speech that has many applications when the topic of free speech arises and funnily enough, works very well when juxtaposed with the recent Ashley Madison hacking.
In the aftermath of a hacking group gaining access to the servers of Ashley Madison's parent company, Avid Life Media, the details of some 37 million account holders have been revealed. That includes names, email addresses, phone numbers, physical characteristics and sexual preferences. Despite the reveal of this deeply personal information, many people have seem happy at the news, or at least willing to suggest that those members of the site deserved having their information made public.
Their reasoning? That the people who signed up for the site were (probably) looking to cheat on their spouse.
There was a reason so many people marched to protect privacy on the internet.
Not only is this a huge generalisation that removes any context of their sign up, but it suggests that the privacy of these people is any different from our own. None of us would like our personal details aired for all to see. I'm a happily married man, but there's some kinks in my life I'd rather keep to myself. Very few people can't say the same.
Last year it was the celebrity nude pictures. Now it's the personal account details of millions of people that were partaking in the services of a legal business. If we start supporting the moral granstanding hackers of the world, then we open the door to worse invasions. What about when it's your Gmail account that they're exposing because you flirted with a colleague? Or your financial details, because you happen to have a great accountant that can save you from paying high taxes?
You don't need to cry for the cheaters, but don't revel in their misery either.
Over the past few years, we've seen the internet attacked by governments, corporations and intelligence agencies, all wishing to make internet privacy a thing of the past. We stood up against it and pushed back the tide in a monumental global effort that saw people really fight for freedoms of expression, speech and privacy online. Let's not look to give that up just because we disagree with how some people make use of it.
KitGuru Says: Doxxing is not an ok practice, whether that information comes from Ashley Madison, Government records or a Netflix account. Let's not start pretending it is.
Image source: Wikimedia
A huge generalisation? Is that a joke? The site’s own slogan is “Life is short. Have an affair.” What the hell do you think the people who sign up on such a site are looking for? And comparing the rise to power of a fascist, hateful militia that caused the death of millions, to a bunch of keyboard warriors… Disgraceful.
So why is it wrong when hackers do it, and yet when microsoft, google, yahoo, ect sell personal information to advertising companies its called “business”?
The site is/was a discreet dating site. Many people used it who weren’t married.
For instance, this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/3ebzzj/i_may_get_stoned_to_death_for_gay_sex_gay_man/
Not a joke at all. To suggest everyone on there was a cheating spouse and therefore evil is miopic. There may be swinging couples, singles looking to sleep with married people, those who are married to people with physical disabilities that may copulation impossible, prostitutes and escorts; none of those people deserve to have their information leaked.
Not that anyone did, but there are many reasons people may have joined a site like this and simply being a member does not mean they deserve a moralistic punishment.
Not that I agree with what the NSA, GCHQ are doing, but when anonymous data is recorded for adverts it isn’t shared publicly.
And how many of the users do you think that accounts for, really? Saying “huge generalisation” makes it sound like it isn’t the site’s primary purpose and demographic, which is just as miopic as thinking only cheaters use it.
Sure, that is the site’s purpose, or at least it’s marketing says so.
However, I would wager that much like dating sites, most of the people that signed up to AM, even those that paid for an account, didn’t successfully hook up. Which means all they’ve done is signed up to a website.
Until someone compiles the data, or AM itself tells us, we’re just clutching at straws trying to guess at numbers.
I still think the original comparison stands. It’s comparing two groups of people that are happy to others to burn while they are safe, purely by luck of circumstance. That’s not a good thing.
You’re the one who wrote this article, if you don’t have numbers you shouldn’t make comments such as these.
And I really don’t think the comparison is valid, and even less that’s it’s luck of circumstance. Rubbing your genitals with someone other that the person you live with isn’t a race, a religion or a political belief. It’s not something ingrained into you since childhood, unless you had very interesting parents. The people happy about this hack might be deluded moral gardians, but nobody’s taking a train to Poland here. For most of these people, a call to the bank will bring an end to all their issues. And for those who had something to hide to their relatives, well, tough luck and better hope they don’t find out.
“I’m a happily married man, but there’s some kinks in my life I’d rather keep to myself. Very few people can’t say the same.” This is a huge generalisation, and a false one. “Secure internet” is not a thing. So dont post your nude pics or cheating habits online.
“personal information”
I don’t care if ebays advert on facebook knows I recently searched for an SD card… In fact I find it useful they post the reminders as a better or cheeper product is often shown.
But I do care if my contact details are made public, or given to the government.
Therfore, the hackers (in this case) are worse than the major intenet businesses…
While i do not think that cheating is an okay thing, i don’t really think that leaking this much data about people that may or may not be involved in an affair is okay either.
Most people say that they deserve it, but do they know how much harm can this cause? Breakups are hard, especially when the other half betrayed you, some people will get over it, but some won’t, what will they do? No one can possibly know, people do crazy stuff when you break their heart.
What about marriages, let’s say a guy who has wife and 2 kids just wants to have some fun in his life, he joins a dating site and starts to flirt with other women, then the shit hits the fan, private info leaked, that good friend Greg who knew his wife since HS digs through the massive amount of data only to find that Chad was on a “cheating” site. Of course he goes and says: “Hey, i think your husband is cheating on you” and the shitstorm commences. Doesn’t matter that Chad loves his kids, they get dragged into years of bullshit at courts, they see their dad once in a week and mommy marries this new guy who happens to be enormous asshole. But hey, it’s okay since Chad deserved it, right?
You see? It affects not only those involved directly, but also those who were involved indirectly, you may say that they’re better off without them anyways, but as long as this causes harm to anyone who wasn’t directly involved, it should never be considered okay.
That’s not the point. Its the same thing. Regardless of how you personally feel about the matter. Just because you don’t care doesn’t change it to being any different than hacking lol. That’s a ridiculous notion.
So you would feel the same way if you bought something from amazon, and amazon then sold your information to a bunch of 3rd party sites, which then flooded your email and snail mail. Is it wrong then?
obviously not so discreet…
I’m guessing most of you didn’t read impulse’s message to ALM. The people using the site were not really the targets, it was the corrupt practices of ALM that were being exposed. Giving out the identities of some cheaters was just a plus. Realistically, he was giving the users of their sites a ton of leverage to prove that ALM was outright lying and deceiving users for financial gain. It’s sad seeing a bunch of ignorant people complaining about the wrong thing because they don’t take the time to do a little research.
You’ve completely missed the point. It would have been completely appropriate to do more research before writing this bs article.
because that’s what happens when you have crony capitalism and large corporations own the politicians. Big business can do whatever the hell they want to with your personal information and, believe me when I say this, they know way more about you than just your recent search history. Most of these ignoramuses think what the hackers did was wrong, but only because they don’t know how to do thorough research. Impulse, the hacking group responsible, did much more to help the site’s users than it did to harm them.
Hear Hear.
That’s why it’s a metaphor. The article references it because it’s symbolic of a slide that occurs when people are self interested and permit dubious (or worse) behaviour. I think the article nailed it.
Some cheaters, or 37 million users, indiscriminately? If they take issue with ALM, whatever, but exploiting private information as a means of getting at them is not acceptable. Don’t pretend it was moral of them to do so.
how about people in abusive relationships trying to find a way out?
how about those that are swingers couples?
how about those that are hiding their sexual orientation from their family and friends?
A lot of people WILL die due to the incident. I can’t believe that people are rooting for the murderers.
yeah, if you really opposed the site, you could have just taken it down. How much physical harm will this exposure cause? How many people are now unsafe in their own house due to being targets?
Yea thats my point. It was more so bringing it up than it really being a question. Its sad that on the facebook comments there was even a guy who thinks that websites don’t take his information. Especially his email, facebook, twitter, ect. lol…I guess ya can’t wonder why nothing is being done about it since we have a majority of the people who are unaware of it even happening.
I can’t tell whether you’re a troll or completely insane. A lot of people will die because their account details were posted on the deep web? They’rre relative will kill them for using this site? What world do you live in?
Either way, this is the invasion of privacy and the justifying of criminal actions on the basis of mere moral objections. Anyone could just justify hacking whatever they want on some vague moral grounds, so it sets bad precedent if people start saying that it was okay for this to happen.
Though then again, now with this out there in one big dump, perhaps there is less chance of blackmail of individuals. I suppose they may have cherry picked some users for that though and excluded them for now.
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What happens to Muslims who live in oppressive countries when they are found out to be homosexual/lesbian ? What about Russians ? What about North Korea? Just because we in uk/europe/usa are pretty laid back about GLBTQ issues doesn’t mean that everyone else is.
Go and Google the punishments from each of the country’s I have mentioned and you will see a massive difference of mindset.
No, he is just saying that there some aspects of his personal life that do not need to be all over the internet and I agree. If you disagree then please feel free to post your full name/address and every single deeply personal piece of information you possibly can about yourself.
I am a relatively normal sort of person but there is alot about me that is absolutely no-one elses business, hell I’d be mortified to find my Medical records had been doxxed for example as I would have some serious explaining to family and friends about how I never told them I suffer with a couple of things that I do……(obviously they know about the wheelchair which is why it’s in my avatar).
The point of the article and the original quote is very applicable. While one is an obvious extreme case, in both instances, those who are unaffected have been happy for something they might otherwise disagree with to happen, because they believe themselves apart from those affected.
That’s moral grandstanding and it doesn’t help anyone.
There’s a very specific example I can give you:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/3ebzzj/i_may_get_stoned_to_death_for_gay_sex_gay_man/
This man has had to flee his country because of the data release, for fear of death over his sexual preferences.
This article also suggests as many as 50 people from Saudi arabia used the site. Simply for being members they face persecution and perhaps criminal charges:
http://news.sky.com/story/1539560/gay-people-at-risk-after-ashley-madison-hack
That’s one person, and nowhere does it say the others are at risk or are even homosexual. In fact it looks like they can’t even get a consistent number, opening with “hundreds” and then switching to “more than 50”. This is sensationalist trash.
To be punished they’d first need to be discovered, and that means someone will have to actively seek the data on the deep web and reveal or use it, something that in itself is entirely illegal and not exactly in the skillset of many people. How probable is that?
Hackers are Hitler, gotcha. 10/10 metaphor right there.
I’m not pretending anything. I will say that most of them (not all) deserved it and I don’t feel sorry for them in the least. If people used those sites as a joke or out of curiosity, they don’t really have to worry about financial loss and if people judge them for it, that just helps them know who to get rid of in their life. The harm done is to the paying members, who obviously were there to cheat and to ALM, of course.
This is basically the same argument as whether or not it would be right if batman was a vigilante, taking justice into his own hands. Those who have something to hide are the ones who seem to have the most fear. If you don’t want your private info on the internet, then don’t give your information shady-ass sites like a moron. Nothing is safe on the internet and if you believe otherwise, then you probably have much larger problems to worry about.
Let me explain my comment:
1. Op states that very few people dont have kinks (unusual sexual habits). I disagree.
2. I am saying that you shouldnt post sensitive and personal data on the internet. Especially your nude pics and cheating habits.
Because the internet is not that safe i believe you shouldnt post sensitive data.
1: kinks doesn’t necessarily mean sexual behaviour, the op may be a member of a stamp club or other such “uncool” organisation.(please note I have nothing against members of stamp clubs)
2: this I agree with 100%. When teaching my son about internet use I remind him of the golden rules, 1: whatever you post on the internet will ALWAYS be there forever. And 2 : Think if your grandma would like what you are posting/showing, if she wouldn’t be offended by it then it is ok.
It is not illegal to use the darkweb nor is it illegal to search for information on people……
So an unmarried guy used it so he could sleep with married people? Oh why didn’t you say so, I didn’t realize how decent and respectable the site and the members were.
If you are “single” why do you need to be “discreet” in your dating?
Because being a socialist and being a member of Ashley Maddison is almost identical in nature. And a few hackers outing personal info is like a government rounding up political adversaries? What a dumb commentary beginning with the suggestion that outing those cheating on their spouses is the first step to what could become Nazi Germany.
You’re not a moral judge. Judges and juries are placed in power. You are not. Neither are the hackers. I used short sentences so everyone can understand this simple concept. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, but when you opinion leads to illegal acts like exposing private data, I hope you get punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Jon, you mean all they did was TRY to hook up… Try to have an affair? So they don’t deserve any of this?
Good point Jon.
Who thinks the activity of the hacker is worse than the cheaters? I certainly don’t. I find them equally disgusting. I hope the hackers out the cheaters then get caught and are put in jail. That would be my perfect solution to all of this.
You clearly think you are brighter than you are John.
Please explain how me having my opinion about this leads to illegal acts like exposing private data”? That is quite possible the most asinine thing I have ever heard. So anyone who could care less that cheaters are getting exposed caused them to get exposed in your book?
Let me put this in a nice little package even you can understand. I despise trophy hunters. Say some jerkoff with a big sniper rifle is out on the African plains trying to shoot a Lion… He stumbles falls on his gun and shoots his dick clean off……..
Just because I laugh my ass off about it…. doesn’t mean I was the one who shot his dick off or am responsible for him losing his dick.
Get it ?
John, At one time hiding Jews from a Nazi government was an illegal act. Judges and juries upheld that law, and punished those that were morally right to the fullest extent of the law. I guess we know which side you would have been on.
Nope… first Nazis came for the socialist… and who doesn’t hate socialist? And now, hackers came for the cheaters. But with general support and moral boost (like your posts and that of your friend’s, Tim) you never know, Nazis had it first – when they came for the socialists! They may indeed become the Nazis, committing online genocides of groups they don’t think deserve to be treated as human.
You sound just like your name!! Revealing AM accounts on open web to be pursued by the authorities is not sensationalist, but running for your life is? What catholic preacher crap is this!! 😀
A lot of people think it’s worse, because it is. Just because it disgusts you doesn’t mean anything, because people reserve the freedom and the right to be unfaithful, whether it’s moral in your eyes or not, and more importantly it’s not anyone else’s business – least of all yours. We do not live under IS-style rules of moral conduct, and with good reason.
You and I both know that is not what was said, so if that’s how you want to respond then you’re a waste of time.
50 or 60 years ago if gay people had been publicly named and shamed, most morons on this earth would have been baying the same “they deserve it! Let’s GET EM!”. So, today, you people crying the same rubbish are the same kind of morons sticking your nose into OTHER PEOPLES BUSINESS or marriage, making a moral judgement based on your own lives and feelings (Which is nothing to do with other people’s lives and feelings).
So get over it. Some people paid some money to an online service (which was supposed to be protected by privacy like everything else online) to do something which is legal. But that’s not good enough for the undercover ‘moral police’ is it? No.. because they’re all clinging to their precious marriage vows from 300 years ago, so that simply means NOBODY ELSE CAN GET LAID EITHER!!
Grow up. Just ‘coz you’re stuck in the dark ages, doesn’t mean everyone else has to believe what you believe… or else.
The real issue here is invasion of privacy and actual laws have been broken and people are endorsing this. It’s not about ‘how it makes you feel when someone does something you are threatened by’. It’s real Mob/thug mentality happening.
Yeah that example you just gave is in no way comparable to what John was talking about. Someone “accidentally” shooting his dick off while trophy hunting is not the same as a society allowing something to happen due to indifference. Hackers intentionally exposing private data because of a moral stance against cheating and people being happy or indifferent about that act is not the same as the self inflicted freak accident you described in your analogy.
It’s not in the skillset of many people to use Google?
The data may not be shared publicly, but what they do with the data isn’t exactly what most (those that didn’t bother to read the terms of service) would approve of. It’s still data being kept and shared with people that you may not have any interest or desire in having your information shared with, and with you having no say in it at all.
People are free to be morons in any capacity they choose as long as what they are doing isn’t illegal. I have a personal disdain for cheaters, but to say that someone “deserves” to be the victim of an illegal activity just because of my personal opinions of their lifestyle or life choices is just plain wrong. Putting personal information on the web for anything, be it a dating site/cheating site or even Facebook is a risky and dumb move. But to say that people deserve to have that information illegally hacked and leaked is a huge slippery slope.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the tradition of marriage vows, and the importance most in society place on them, to be “stuck in the dark ages”. There is nothing wrong with adhering to tradition, and marriage is supposed to be a contract between two people (either religiously through church and vows or officially through government license). As a social construct that marriage is there is nothing wrong with values being placed on it. I mean its quite simple if you want to screw other people don’t get married and drag someone else into it.
However, where I will agree with you is that there are no laws against cheating and we can’t have people taking illegal measures to try and punish someone for a personal indiscretion that they couldn’t otherwise punish them for. I have no love for cheaters, married or unmarried, and I think its one of the most selfish and distasteful things a person could do to another. But I don’t have the legal or moral right to decide that I will take it upon myself to “out” these people using illegal OR legal means. If these hackers had a problem with the site they should have just kept it to attacking the site and not out people using a legal service.
So a single man looking to hook up with a married couple is exempt from the moral and legal aspect of adultery, because he’s single and couldn’t find someone to potentially break the law with (depending on where you live)…gotcha. As for the swingers/disabled/etc you mentioned, I think they are better sites for those people; that AM. Though I did laugh at your defending prostitutes and escorts, which again depending on location; could be breaking the law already.
“they’re just scared” yea because they could die. Inconsistent numbers aren’t sensationalist trash, and you don’t have to be homosexual to be at risk here. Looking at your past comments I don’t think you have the knowledge (concerning the internet and number of deep web users), the experience (you make using the deep web sound much harder than it is) and the cultural background (we live in a world where homosexuality and extra martial affairs can get you jailed, stoned and killed in many countries) to be making the fairly ignorant comments that i see all over this page.
All those people who aren’t cheating will be fine since the significant other knows already as you suggested. So what’s your point? These people won’t get in trouble and won’t be shamed. Only the real cheaters will be shamed.
Paying to have the chance to cheat is the same as cheating. There is intent. That’s first degree cheating.
You are ignorant as fck. Hackers help the world, are you scared they might show what you’ve done wrong?
It’s not illegal to cheat but you also lose half of everything you own if you do cheat. That is enough reason to keep it a secret. It is ridiculous that you would say it’s our right to be unfaithful, that’s the same as we have the right to betray our family. You are a pathetic person.
Hackers say cheating is a bad thing. I agree with that statement because it is true. Lies and deception when you could just leave the marriage. This isn’t genocide, this is shaming. If you commit the deed and can’t handle the consequences, man the fuck up and accept your mistakes and change. Hurting the one that is closest to you, never made sense to me. How can anyone be fighting and saying ousting cheaters is a bad thing? I wish for your entire life, that you are cheated on.
It does help all those that stay true to their life commitments to their significant other. It’s not easy to stay in a marriage but that’s what makes a person keep their head held high because of that trust and knowing you are doing right by the one that stands by your side. It gives a confirmation, that how you live your life is right. Please explain how cheaters getting caught is affecting non-cheaters?
I hope you are cheated on for the rest of your life. I hope your best friends betray your trust and sleep with your wife. I hope your wife has threesomes on discreet dating sites. People in general feel the same way about cheating. No one wants it to happen to them and everyone knows it’s wrong, why else would you hide it from your significant other? If it wasn’t wrong, wouldn’t they be proud?
The hackers are not to be blamed for this, Ashley Madison could’ve saved those lives by deleting customer data as they said they would. Do most people know this was the reason? Hackers tried to PROTECT customers data, but all people see is them ousting people. They warned AM to delete all customer information like they said they would. AM is a bad company and clearly they are making money off of people’s misery and increasing the stigma that cheating is fine and deserved to be able to hide themselves and betray whoever they want. Those in abusive relationships should leave the relationship like a normal human being. That’s only logical. Swingers couples, it doesn’t even matter because they won’t be shamed. The one’s only being affected are the idiots who used this site as a dating site when it says FOR AFFAIRS. Clearly these idiots who are part of the LGBT movement should read what the site is associated with and know that they could get attacked by hackers, hackers who attack immoral things. Hackers are prevalent and will always be. Make wise decisions and don’t join up on a cheating website.
Hmmm what would happen if he didn’t cheat? Oh yeah the kids would be fine. And I hope you get cheated on constantly and never find out.
People ignore the fact that this was to protect people’s information where it’s never safe, even with the companies like AM saying they’ll delete personal information on their contracts but didn’t follow through. Hackers weren’t fighting to stop cheating, cheating will always be around since there are always bad people, hackers were fighting for real rights.
Why are the hackers wrong? AM said they would delete personal information for their customers and never followed through. Hackers warned AM to follow through with their contract and protect the people. The best way for the hackers to win the fight is to oust people and get AM sued up the ass so the company gets shut down by bankruptcy. People claiming to be victims (cheaters) will be compensated through the court. I for one hope they don’t get a penny.
It doesn’t matter if the vows are outdated. The vows were made, if you can’t handle it, why not leave the marriage instead of hurting someone that cared for you? Why make a promise you can’t keep? Do you even know why the hackers attacked AM? It’s not for ‘moral’ issues, it’s because AM told their clients they would delete personal information and didn’t follow through. Hackers warned AM to do what AM said they would do for their clients but failed and this is the outcome. I hope you never find love. I really hope you don’t but if you do, I hope she cheats on you.
Clearly you don’t even know what the fight was for. Most of you ignorant people will speak so loudly but not even know the real issue. The issue was to protect AM’s clients, that’s what the hackers were trying to do. AM stated in contracts that they would delete personal information of clients for privacy and didn’t follow through. Hackers don’t fight for moral ideals, they fight against businesses that don’t do what they say. How about you learn to read a bit before talking?
Are you just ignorant or like to pretend to play stupid? Do you know why the hackers attacked AM? Clearly you don’t because you thought it was from a moral standpoint.
You take it down, it will go back up the instant they leave it alone. They warned AM to follow through with the contracts they signed. If AM knew the hackers would do this, AM should’ve protected their clients by following through. Clearly they didn’t, so hackers had to follow through instead. You need to understand people that signed up for this site NOT for cheating are on the wrong site and will be collateral damage. That is their fault for being ignorant.
Myopic
The hackers warned ALM to solve the issue by protecting their clients data, ALM declined and the only way to hurt them is to get them sued, which is happening right now. This is really amazing because it will set a precedent for other businesses with bad ethics. People could’ve used ALM’s information and blackmailed people, now they can’t get blackmailed. Now I hope you get cheated on, because you believe cheaters should be allowed to hide.
They deserve more than that. Try to name one other moment a hacker group has hacked because of emotional moral issues. You won’t be able to because these people stand for real rights. You are holding them back and giving the good guys a bad name.
Your comments make no sense, hacking is illegal so AM doesn’t have any legal obligation to respond to any demands from hacker groups. I also don’t know why you feel the need to reply on every comment that cheating is bad and they deserved to be caught. You sound like the religious preaching type, everyone hates the moral police.
That’s ignorant to call me religious and no one hates the moral police. Except for immoral people. Cry all you want. I never stated that AM had any legal obligation to the hacking group. Clearly you can’t read and interpret shit properly. AM had a legal obligation to their clients and was said to delete clients personal information, which is stated on their website. They failed and are misusing that information. Hackers warned AM that they will oust the information. If AM was more intelligent, they could’ve solved these problems by following through with what was written in their contracts. No one would be ousted if this happens. This isn’t a moral issue, it is a human rights issue. Now grow up and go back to school to learn how to understand basic concepts.
Wrong. As journalists, you report on what you see/hear NOW, as it’s happening. A journalist isn’t a historian; with all the facts available at their disposal, to just document what has happened & not imbue personal bias – quite the opposite. Journalism, by it’s very nature is speculative, as we write about what is happening now, with the best information we have: it’s called currency & applies to whatever is relevant. You would know there’s no such thing as objective narration – ever – no matter how hard you try you always bring something to the table, it’s just human nature.
Your point about validity is incorrect too. Jon was alluding to the bigger picture. It has nothing to do w/ Ashley Madison per se; it’s to do w/ hackers & privacy, not about wrong or right, morality or immorality, etc.
I also don’t see how a call to the bank helps… the info is in the public domain now.
Hear hear
I could quote some of your posts but I won’t bother as it’s obvious you are trolling. I don’t usually get caught responding to troll posts so well done sir, you got me.
Well you seem like a real charmer. There’s a difference between a reason and a justification, or do you just pretend to have lacklustre social skills?
Prove that by finding anywhere in my last post to you, that it says anything about cheating is bad. Or else people will know, you call people a troll because you can’t handle this debate and back up your own comments. Can you even find one wrong thing about my last post? Can you argue it point for point?
This article goes from Zero to Godwin’s Law in one sentence flat on a closed circuit. It’s got some impressive horseshit-power even for a vehicle of its category. Consider it a buy if you’re looking for some easy, cruise-controlled controversy.
“Which means all they’ve done is signed up to a website.”….signed up with the intention of hooking up. Even if they weren’t successful they still paid money, the family’s money to attempt to hook up.
It’s nice you wish me some emotional pain. I can tell it’s a sore spot for you.
First of all, it means any one of those people can be blackmailed, by anyone with access to that data. Your assertion that nobody can be blackmailed is moronic. In spite of this information being out there, it does not automatically mean it is downloaded into the brains of every spouse and partner who could potentially be involved. Many people will not even know about this story, and fewer still will know how to access the data. I am quite sure there are some enterprising criminals out there harvesting this data for the sole purpose of blackmail already.
Second, the idea that it’s somehow noble to take that private information and put it out there for everyone to see is ignorant in the extreme. You are using blanket logic to apply the same conditions to millions of people. You do not know any of their personal lives, conditions, who they are, where their lives are – literally nothing at all about any of them. Essentially, you are in absolutely no position to judge anyone, and neither are the hackers. I don’t care if you have had your feelings hurt in the past, it doesn’t make you the arbiter in their lives. Like I said already, there are good reasons that we do not live in a moralistic dictatorship.
It’s not my fault America has stupid divorce laws. It’s also not my concern if people are dumb enough to get married in the first place – but I won’t apologise for being sympathetic to people wanting to have some control over their lives, even if they make that mistake to begin with. Neither one of us can pretend to know the contents of any of these people’s lives. I’m sure there are some sleazy people who use the site. I’m sure there are also plenty of people who are desperately miserable in loveless relationships, at various points in their lives, who deserve to escape that desperate monotony. The institution of marriage is a load of crap as far as I’m concerned anyway, people should always reserve the right to change their minds at any point in their lives. You can take your judgemental nonsense and stick it.
So if the sites slogan was “life is short, molest a little boy” we should assume that the members aren’t all there to molest little boys? Maybe they just want to sleep with people who like to molest little boys?
For christs sake Jon… The leeway you allow is insane. And he never called the people who use Ashley Maddison “evil”, those were your words not his.
And how come you completely avoided his best point… How do compare the Nazi empire and government who murdered millions of people with computer hackers… That is disgraceful, he is right.
“I still think the original comparison stands. It’s comparing two groups of people that are happy to others to burn while they are safe, purely by luck of circumstance. That’s not a good thing.”
Two groups of people that are happy to others to burn while they are safe, purely by luck of circumstance?
You still don’t get it. comparing the Nazi regime who murdered millions of people to the general public who is amused that people who betray other people or AT THE VERY LEAST associate with a website that intends to help people betray other people is not a good analogy. Its horrible analogy.
pretty much every “Nazi” analogy ever made was a horrible analogy because you simply can not compare the horror and unfathomable loss of life caused by that regime. To associate it to something like this is beyond ridiculous and callous to the victims and their families of the Nazi’s.
Its just stupid to suggest that not caring if people who sign up to Ashley Maddison get outed is the same as not caring when the Nazi’s started rounding up political foes to murder them.
Who the hell stands by that comparison? Its illogical and disgusting.
Except one person is being “happy” the socialists are being rounded up for death, the other is “happy” because a cheating spouse is outed for being a cheated spouse.
Furthermore, the entire purpose of the analogy is about what happens next…. And next in the case of the Nazi’s was rounded up 6 million jews and exterminating them while starting a world war that resulted in over 100 million deaths worldwide.
So when you say part of the analogy is “an obvious extreme case”… you are suggesting that if you don’t care the cheaters get outed one possible “extreme” outcome is that 6 million ethnic people could be exterminated and a world war could start killing another 100 million people.
Again, f’ing ridiculous.
Anthony you too are full of sheet.
“Someone “accidentally” shooting his dick off while trophy hunting is not the same as a society allowing something to happen due to indifference.”
Excuse me… How has society allowed this to happen due to indifference? There indifference to the suffering of cheaters was only seen after the incident that outed them, not before. Whether society felt the way they do or not, the hackers were still going to do this. Society is a bystander they aren’t a participant.
My advice for people like you… if you are too afraid that someone might find out what you are doing… don’t do it. Its an easy fix.
Dafuq? I wrote a huge piece yesterday. I checked back today… GONE. F U DUDE
And who are these “hackers” exactly? How do we know they aren’t some f-ed up guy who had a personal beef with one of the AM clients, and just coz he knows how to crack codes…he went on to reveal all of database as show-off of his skill? How does a fucker who is not even man enough to use a real name sermons me to man-up, about faithfulness? I know a looser like you would harbour these kind of sentiments…but to man-up, you need say what’s wrong is wrong. I said “to support what the hackers did was wrong” coz they are shadows, outside moral or legal boundaries, that is why they could be would-be nazis. today it’s cheating (morally OK but not legally), tommorow it could be uneven distribution of wealth (how would Americans support that? :D)…then it could become that the middle-eastern/Islamic countries shouldn’t exist (complete Nazi)! we must know some-one to support that some-one… never once did I support cheating on a loved one, you moron.
I don’t debate with trolls, go find other people to insult loser.
Hackers help the world? Do you say that about the hackers that hacked them credit card companies and stole all the info and messed up people credit? Or hacked yours or someone else’s bank accounts? I think not, hackers are criminals plain and simple.
Well for starters, being involved with any site like that would be a crime. Being an Ashley Madison member is not.
At no point did I draw a direct comparison between Nazis and hackers. The point of the “First they came…” speech/poem, at its core, is the idea of turning a blind eye because it doesn’t affect you directly.
This analogy could be drawn from many parts of history or society, but this is one of the more famous ones and is more likely to be understood by a larger body of people. Clarity and understanding when writing a piece, especially something op-ed like this is very important.
Obviously you disagree with the interpretation, but I think if you take it in context it makes sense.
Herp derp.
It’s comparison of peoples reaction. First they came for socialist and German public was silent because they were not affected, now they are coming for adulterers and American public is silent too.
You have no right to force your morals on other people. Go fuck a goat or something.
Dude you are just beating a dead horse. Tell him to go fuck a goat, and stop wasting your time and energy.
Well your logic suggest that you think that private data of AM users should be published on the off chance that some suspicious spouse can find out whether he or she is being cheated on because that is morally wrong a as break of trust. Sorry, but such suspicion is lack of trust, your logic implodes.
Well… not to play devil’s advocate, but by agreeing to the terms of service “you” do approve of it and “you” did have a say. “You” said whatever, you’re telling me stuff and I don’t care, just give me your product already. For better or worse.
That’s why company like Shazzle created private email for those who concerned with the privacy of their personal email communications. Watch more here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTrwhmzBy_4
Hackers are just always those bad guys stealing information and reveling the dirt of this world. But Google, Yahoo doesn’t sound as scary or threatening as hackers, so they quietly do their dirty spying/selling job behind the scene.
“who doesn’t hate socialists?” Plenty of people, especially in the 30s, though I’m not at all surprised that someone who thinks the comparison isn’t ridiculous would have so little knowledge of history or politics. And where did I say I support the hackers again? Oh that’s right, nowhere.
Ho ho, I disagree with you so I’m a dumb religious preacher! So on top of being ignorant you’re a bigot, isn’t that great. And you don’t even know what sensasionalist means, seriously how old are you?
Right, he didn’t compare the hackers to nazis, just the reaction of people to systematic imprisonment, forced labor and murder to that of a data dump.
Because you can find the personal infos of these people on google?
It’s entirely illegal to use data that was revealed or obtained through a hack.
Has anyone been jailed yet? This completely anonymous person is being made a martyr before any action has been taken again anyone. It’s ridiculous. When an article opens with a completely different number than the one used in the rest of the article I have to assume they’re just click-baiting, or do you honestly believe in journalistic integrity, especially on the internet? And I never said using the deep web is hard or nobody does it, it’s simply that not many people, especially in the kind of backwater countries where homosexuals would be threatened by this, knows how to do. Call me ignorant all you want if it makes you feel justified in your “misinterpretations”, right now nothing has happened, very little probably will happen, there aren’t thousands of death and the comparison to nazis is still, and will always be, completely overblown.
You’re completely missing the point. I’m not telling him he should have accurate numbers, I’m saying he shouldn’t claim something is a huge generalisation (i.e. that a majority of users aren’t there to cheat) if he has absolutely no way of knowing it. There’s a line between speculation and pulling stuff out of your rear. Journalists may not be historians but if they aren’t the least bit accurate, what good are they?
Oh so it’s a “metaphor” that doesn’t have anything to do with either of the things compared? Pretentious clickbait.
And a call to the bank will help those whose details may be used to buy stuff on the net, which is the big threat whenever such a hack happens.
relax J.A… i was just pulling your leg!! i didn’t mean that you are an actual preacher!! they aren’t so dumb… 😀 😀 AND MAN!! you spell it wrong and then you claim to know the term and on top of that you ask my age 😀 :D… hilarious…
oh you need not say it aloud… you did plenty of their defending even when you claim not to support them. now, coming back to the point, I support neither, the hackers or cheaters, just like you. but at first nazis were heroes too!! read up history, kid. politics is way beyond you 😉 main thing is, the comparison shows what happen when we do not speak up against justice served beyond the boundaries of legitimate law. that’s why i said what i said… think about it.
We need to change our internet behavior by changing the way we access it. Stay off the web where the tech giants copy everything. I have developed ShazzleMail, an email application that uses your smart phone as your server, keeping your email off the web. It is free. Your smart phone is powerful enough that you don’t need to be on Google’s servers. You have one of your own. We only need the applications to allow this.
Again, if you’re this wilfully ignorant, then what is the point in even taking part in the conversation? At no point did he say it was equivalent to the horrors of the Nazis. The metaphor was to do with the attitude of the people who stand on the sidelines and ignore it because it doesn’t directly affect them at the time. That is literally all there is to it. Either you’re trying to be a prick, or you’re an idiot. Take your pick.
You’ve got some reading comprehension issues.
Pure ad hominem with no argument. Go back to your cave.
“but at first nazis were heroes too!! read up history”
Heroes? Follow your own advice or better yet, go to middle school. They were a fringe group that relied on violence and what would nowadays simply be labelled terrorism.
You’ve got some comprehension issues, end of discussion.
Thanks for wasting my time, idiotic prick 😉
Everything you do and say is a waste of time.
Can’t handle your own words, huh? You precious little flower, you.
I was referring to you actually. But like I said, you do have some issues comprehending. It’s best you just slope off back under your rock.
I’m the one who said that, parrot.
No, you said I had difficulty reading. I said you had difficulty thinking. Perhaps you are the one who has difficulty reading.
I said you have difficulty understanding what you read which, based on the fact that this is a comment thread on the internet, is the only medium we have. Difficulty reading would mean dyslexia and the likes.
Trying to be pedantic isn’t going to make you look any less mentally incompetent.
Yes, I guess I should be the adult one here and go back to ad hominem.
That is very, very funny.
haha…i knew it! you went up to middle school only!! that’s why you were forming the opnions you were and giving me advice to attend it!! 😀 :D… OK kiddo… end of discussions. you win (isn’t it civil to be polite with a de-acclerated foreigner kid?) 😀 😀 😀
Your lack of self-awareness is, yes.
“de-acclerated”? Sorry, I don’t speak retardese, and clearly you don’t speak english.
give no value to politeness…!! is that what your middle schools teach these days? 😀 😀 anyways…have fun kid…and a future, if possible 😀 😀
I sure hope I don’t end up trolling on the internet at 50 like you.
really ? please show me the UK law for this.
Are you really that dense? It’s private data that was acquired illegally, you can’t use it in a court of law (at least in civilized countries) and spreading it is a crime of its own. You can’t just show anything you want to the public without authorization from the people concerned.
Firstly please don’t start with the insults as you will lose all credibility in your argument.
In digital law it is commonly the person who initially dumps the information on the internet who is considered the person to have broken the law, anyone else who reposts the information will not receive any criminal backlash unless it is an exceptional set of circumstances. For example if I was to get doxxed and you were then to repost all of my information elsewhere you technically haven’t broken the law as you were just quoting what you have read somewhere.
I’m not saying it is right, it is just the way things are and most digital laws are in need of an overhaul to further protect the privacy of people.
well on a somewhat related note 2 people committed suicide a few days ago over this. I saw some facebook members ask how to look up names on the torrent dump in a uni page as well. I think things are starting to happen.
Freakin’ A it’s clickbait. That’s why we’re here… right? Also – maybe realise this stuff is an opinion piece, it’s not meant to be quoted verbatim. I’m NOT saying journalism should be speculative either, I’m just saying getting yr panties in a twist over an article like this futile…